ForumsQuestionsOfficial naming in TD: Using "clone" "copy" interchangeably
Official naming in TD: Using "clone" "copy" interchangeably
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lite1 |
Love the recent feature addition but am bothered by what I believe is sloppy use of language by TD by using the words "clone" and "copy" almost interchangeably. Please correct me if I am misunderstanding things, and if this thread ends up adding confusion rather than the intended clarity - TD please delete entire thread. My apology in advance if I am wrong.
While I'm quite new to TD, it seems that a task (or subtask)can behave in either of these ways: created by COPYING - a copy is a duplicate/snapshot of an already existing task/subtask. Once it is created it lives an independent life. Great for making templates so entry is speeded up. This is the new feature recently added (but TD refers to this as "clone this task" when you hover over the check box). created by CLONING - a clone is a "special duplicate" of an already existing task/subtask. If you are viewing a clone and make edits to it, these edits simultaneously occur and are visible wherever else you might view the clone. Clones do NOT have independent lives. If you Star a task and then view Starred tasks in the Main View, you are viewing a CLONE. For me the key is that the behavior - independent life versus identical life experience - of what is created is a function of where you do the creation. If I am on a task in my Work folder and use the hover over check box, what I create (by COPYING) is a "copy. If I do the same thing for a task that I am viewing in the Starred tab of Main View, it is slightly harder to put in words: 1) When I use the hover over new function, I am creating (by COPYING) a "copy" in the Starred tab. This copy inherits all of the attributes of the source e.g. the Folder assignment such as Work. This copy has an independent life. --- So far there are no differences to what I had done above when I was in my Work folder. 2) However if I start to edit this copy, I am really working on a clone. By this I mean that the changes I am making will also be viewable in the Folder e.g the Work folder Hence there are two functions: COPYING and CLONING and the result is either a copy or a clone - I have tried to keep this distinction clear in my writing above. In the official announcement of the new feature to me, TD does not keep the distinctions as clear as they might at the level of the "function/command" and at the level of the "result". If I am correct this has led to my confusion. Also if I am correct, I ask for TD to adopt and announce some official language that we can use in the forums so we have clarity. =========== Quote from TD from recent thread in News: 1) Task Duplication / Task Templates / Cloning / etc. It is now possible to duplicate/clone a task. This works for regular tasks as well as parent and subtasks. When you clone a task that has subtasks, it will duplicate everything and will give you a perfect copy of the original. This is a great way to make templates for tasks that you need to create frequently. For example, if you have to do the same 15 tasks for each new project that you get, you could create a template task with these 15 subtasks and then make a copy of the parent task each time you start a new project. To clone a task, hover your mouse over the checkbox. After a second, a popup menu will appear with a link to clone the task. ============================= My suggestion would be that the hover over text read "create duplicate" which is generic language and intentionally somewhat vague and handles what I am referring to as a "copy" or a "clone". If the hover over text can be specific to the actual situation that the user is in then more specific text ("create copy" or "create clone") would be preferable. {The current text "Clone This Task" implies that the command should only work on "Tasks" but clearly it also works if you are hovering on a subtask check box.) Sorry to be detailed (perhaps nit picking) yet I have had enough experience to be concerned that this possible inaccurate use of language might come to bite all of us. A different issue related to clarity in the forums is all of the different meanings that both TD and users have for the word "project(s)", but I'll save that for a different thread. Thanks, Edward |
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Anders |
Hey Edward,
I think your view on the definitions of clone and copy seems to be affected by their use in previous sofware you used that employed those two terms. Speaking as a biologist, the term "clone" seems just as appropriate for this function as "duplicate". What you are referring to with a task that is really one task, but appears in two places is not really a clone at all. It would be more appropriate IMO to call such a thing a reflection, image, echo, parallel, or something like that. Even duplicate seems better to me than clone, which to me means something that began as identical but is its own entity with it's own unique fate quite seperate from that of the original. ~Anders This message was edited Jun 06, 2009. |
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lite1 |
Anders ... thx for input and your language suggestion. Does it seem helpful that we (users and TD) get some definitions of terms and names for them? It certainly does seem that the created entity can behave in different ways. Edward
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Anders |
Something like a Toodledo glossary might be useful. I'm not sure it is necessary at this point, but it wouldn't hurt. As functions like this are added, it would certainly become an important consideration, and should not be that difficult to put together.
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Jake Toodledo Founder |
On Toodledo, the words "clone", "copy", and "duplicate" all mean the same thing. It takes one task and makes another one that is identical in every way. Now you have two independent tasks.
The reason why we chose the word "clone" was because 1) "copy task" might cause some people to confuse this function with the copy/cut/paste commands built into their computer and they might expect the task to get copied to their clipboard for pasting elsewhere. Since this isn't what we wanted to convey, we chose not to use the word "copy" to avoid confusion with the existing computer terminology reserved for that word. 2) "duplicate task" could also be misinterpreted since the word "duplicate" can be a verb and a noun. If someone read the word as a noun, they might think that they were somehow looking at a duplicate and might look for the original, and think that clicking the link might take them to the original task. So, we decided to use the word "clone". You could argue that clone could also be used as a noun, so it has the same problem as "duplicate", but "clone task" sounds less prone to confusion to us, and it has fewer characters too, which makes it faster to read. So, there you go. I hope that helps explain our choice of terminology. |
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lite1 |
Posted by Toodledo:
On Toodledo, the words "clone", "copy", and "duplicate" all mean the same thing. It takes one task and makes another one that is identical in every way. Now you have two independent tasks. 1) Glad for the explanation and glad that you take terminology and creating clarity seriously. 2) Unless I am not understanding the behavior of TD - I disagree with your statement "Now you have two independent tasks." In my mind this statement is NOT true if I use your CLONE function on a task that I see in Main View Star tab. The resultant task does not have an independent life by which I mean if I edit it in the Star tab view my edits will also show up in the task wherever else it can be viewed. {I think that I will find this to actually be very useful, and will continue to keep this distinction in my own mind.} In part, my original post was to point out this different result (even though I am still clicking the CLONE function) and to wonder out loud whether having terminology that could accommodate this difference in result might be of value. I trust you folks to make choices for TD that based on your commitment and much greater experience will best serve the greatest number of users. |
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Jake Toodledo Founder |
I am not sure I really understand the problem that you are having. Using the "clone this task" link makes a totally separate task that has the same properties as the original. The two resulting tasks are not linked in any way. Editing one of those tasks will only edit that task and will leave the other task unchanged.
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Linden |
Maybe this is a confusion about how the different views operate. Your Main View window is a subset of your tasks. All of them are also listed under their appropriate folder, context, status, or goal if you move to a different method of viewing them.
When you clone a task, it basically creates a new task that starts off with the exact same settings. Let's call the original "Task A" and the clone "Task B". If you make changes to Task B, those will not be applied to Task A. However, you will see the changes to Task B reflected on all of the screens that it might normally be found in. |
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lite1 |
Thanks Linden ... your description is what I understand, experience, and have tried to describe in my original post. My "objection/concern" is that TD and users are referring to all of these functions and results by using terminology interchangeably when in fact there are distinct categories (that could have there own name/label) which behave differently. It seems that I am the only one who has concern that there is the potential for confusion, so I will drop it. I hope that this does not come to haunt us.
Edward P.S. I'd recommend to TD that this thread be deleted as I do not think that it will be useful to anyone in the near or more distant future. This message was edited Jun 08, 2009. |
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Anders |
Posted by lite1:
P.S. I'd recommend to TD that this thread be deleted as I do not think that it will be useful to anyone in the near or more distant future. Nothing is more useful than reasoned discussion. Plus it gives people a place to post if they do agree with your view. You say you are the only one, but who knows, the feature is quite new. |
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Linden |
Sorry about that, Edward. I guess I misunderstood your point 2 in the followup to Toodledo's response.
Definitely leave this discussion up! It will be useful for others who find the wording problematic, and more discussion could be helpful. EDIT: Maybe I just figured out the point of confusion. It's the term "independent", not "clone". The potential confusion being that people will think that cloning a task creates a special kind of task that will only appear (independently) in the tab it was generated in. That reading never crossed my mind -- I can see why it could be confusing/frustrating! This message was edited Jun 09, 2009. |
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