ForumsQuestionsDoes Toodledo still not allow proper CSV export ?
Does Toodledo still not allow proper CSV export ?
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Ummagumma |
One of the reasons I started using subtasks is so that I could create a standard template for a typical project and start using it for all new projects.
Finally got around to this and boy, do these guys make it impossible ! Can't duplicate a folder. Can't copy multiple tasks to another folder. Can't export tasks as an editable CSV file and preserve parent / child structure. Can't create a new work project folder and automatically have it show in my saved searches based on wildcards. Every freaking new folder must be manually added. Can't have an automatic category assigned per folder. So no workaround here, too. Toodledo starts to feel more and more like a great new power tool without handles and with a bad fuse. |
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Jake Toodledo Founder |
What exactly are you trying to achieve? It sounds like you have a folder filled with tasks and subtasks and you want to duplicate the entire folder to a new folder. Is that right? Thats going to be pretty difficult. We dont have a bulk duplicate feature at the moment, and a CSV file's structure prevents hierarchy in a way that retains its compatibility with other applications that read CSV files. You could use an XML export which does retain hierarchy, but you cant currently export a single folder so you would have the edit the XML file after downloading to remove the unwanted tasks.
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Ummagumma |
But that's my point, exactly.
It's currently impossible to duplicate a folder, it's impossible to preserve parent / child relationship on CSV export, it's impossible to batch-duplicate multiple tasks and move to another folder, it's impossible to use wildcards / "Contains" in Advanced searchbes on folders, it's impossible to have a specific tag automatically applied to items in specific folders, and the XML route requires a lot of manual labor. With all these limitations, it's pretty hard to utilize Toodledo to it's full advantage. Like creating a templated folder for project tasks and reusing it one project after another. And I don't think that this has anything to do with any programming language restrictions - years ago I used an outliner program called ListPro that would do CSV export / import while maintaining the multiple-level outline structure. And I really fail to see the reason for not being able to batch duplicate / move a list of tasks, or for not being able to use "Contains" type search for folders. Must be the built-in design limitations. |
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Jake Toodledo Founder |
You are correct, it is not a programming language restriction. What you are trying to do has not been requested often enough for us to prioritize it as a feature, so we have not made it possible yet. I'll put this on our todo list.
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Ummagumma |
Jake,
I've been using Toodledo long enough to know that this basically means a polite "get lost". :) The inability to create and easily reuse task project folder templates really undermines the added value of premium functionality (subtasks). If a typical project structure can't be quickly applied to new projects, it makes subtasks all that much less interesting. One would think Toodledo would try to make premium subscriptions more appealing to potential users by supporting some pretty common use scenarios... This message was edited Jul 17, 2017. |
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Purveyor |
Ummagumma,
Take a look at this: https://www.toodledo.com/forums/3/17365/0/toodledo-toosdays-task-templates.html This message was edited Jul 18, 2017. |
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Ummagumma |
I saw it, thanks. The problem is that every parent / children combo must be copied separately. E.g. I started a project template and right now I have 25 tasks in it, grouped under 5 parent items. To use that template in a new project, I have to perform clone / assign new folder operation 5 times.
And this was just a test to see how it works. In my complete project checklist template, I would likely end up with at least a dozen or so parent tasks, perhaps more, all with multiple subtasks, and at least as many "orphaned" individual tasks. All of which must be individually duplicated and reassigned. This is just too much work. If I use CSV import, I run into a different set of issues. First, it's a clunky approach, especially on the mobile. Second, the subtask structure is lost on import, so I end up with a disorganized pile of individual tasks. The bottom line is, the concept of a preset task templates is great, but the implementation doesn't really work well for anything outside a simple reusable checklist. It's the same thing with the way subtasks are working in general. The whole idea of having them - for me at least - is to minimize the amount of information on the screen, hiding tasks until their start or due dates. Except this is not how it works in Toodledo. If I hide them, they will remain hidden even on due date. If I keep the parent / child tasks expanded, then it takes away the main reason to use them in first place. 2Do handles it better - the subtask stays hidden until it's triggered by date. Anyway, this is why I am so frustrated with TD sometimes. They have the best system for handling complex tasks, they support all of the necessary feature enablers, yet they have so many built in limitations, these features can't be well utilized. |
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Jake Toodledo Founder |
You are clearly a Toodledo Power User. The limitation that you are bumping up against is not something that 99.9% of our users encounter. I will think of ways to solve your problem that will be easy for us to implement. Right now, making it possible to duplicate an entire folder would be quite a lot of work for us.
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Ummagumma |
Jake,
First, I want to apologize if my criticism of TD sounds harsh, this is certainly not my intent. I know can be very direct sometimes. Second, here's the problem: "You are clearly a Toodledo Power User. The limitation that you are bumping up against is not something that 99.9% of our users encounter." Quite honestly, this surprises me very much. I don't consider myself a power user at all (a real power user would probably use a custom tailored system at work, tied with Project). If the majority of your users don't need fairly straightforward features like automatically showing due or starting subtasks when the date is triggered, or being able to reuse a folder of templated tasks with few simple clicks, then you're honestly catering to the wrong audience. They would be better off using a simplified, straightforward, eye-candy mobile-friendly system like Todoist / Any.Do / Ticktick / ToDo. (And I suspect that's where many TD users eventually end up...) Toodledo's unique strength is in things all these systems don't provide - start date, advance filtering, etc. Except, as I said earlier, all these potentially powerful features are being held back by design limitations that - honestly - don't always make sense. But then I am not a programmer... This message was edited Jul 18, 2017. |
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Highsteppin |
Jake
How hard would be to add the same search options for folders as those currently for tasks? Even just Folder Contains would be huge for me. I cant believe this wouldn't be a very popular addition. I'm not a power user, but this is a big roadblock for me. |
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Purveyor |
Posted by Ummagumma:
First, I want to apologize if my criticism of TD sounds harsh, this is certainly not my intent. It seems that, despite your pseudo-apology, you want to continue your harsh criticism but you need to justify it because you are being honest.... Quite honestly, this surprises me very much. ... you're honestly catering to the wrong audience. ... design limitations that - honestly - don't always make sense. :-( |
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frindley |
Ummagumma: I work in publishing with weekly projects (sometimes more) and my solution, while not quite as elegant or speedy as what you describe (I would love that too!) and not covering all the things on your wishlist, might be at least a little less fussy than what you are current dealing with.
It centres around the use of the "Permanent Link" feature in the drop down menu for each task. For a long time I had no idea what that was about and simply ignored it. Then when I complained about how tedious it was to have to manually copy the subtasks to a new folder when duplicating a parent task, the helpful admins pointed me to the Permanent Link feature and it has since saved me a lot of time. In my project template I maintain just three parent tasks, each with various subtasks. (Three parent tasks is the maximum for efficiency and my patience!) The template versions of these have no folder assigned so I can always find them in the No Folder category in the Folders list. To set up a new project: Duplicate (Clone) the template parent tasks and then rename the new versions. Click on the down arrow for each parent task and right-click on Permanent Link to open the task in a new tab. In this new tab, expand parent task to show subtasks and then use the Batch Edit feature to set all tasks to the required project folder (already created in advance in the folder management area) as well as assign a common due date (which can then be fine-tuned for individual tasks). Repeat for the remaining two parent tasks. This system works pretty well for me and I can be pretty speedy with it. It does require you to think of your templates at the tasks/subtasks level rather than the folder level and if your needs require numerous top level tasks (as opposed to my system of just three tasks with many subtasks under these) then it likely won't work for you. But perhaps it might work for someone else who stumbles on this thread. This message was edited Jul 19, 2017. |
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Ummagumma |
Posted by Purveyor:
It seems that, despite your pseudo-apology, you want to continue your harsh criticism but you need to justify it because you are being honest. :-( I may just stop the criticism and move on to another platform, which is what many seem to be doing. I've had a bit of time to kill in an airport and looked at the profiles of all the people in a feature request thread from 5 years ago. I'd say 90% of them are no loner active users. Task management is a very saturated field. Compared to most other players, Toodledo comes rather short in the ease of use / simplicity or looks areas. (Sorry, even with redesign). It's mobile offerings are a mixed bag, at best. It's core strength is in the added task management features. The ability of users to utilize these added features is currently limited. The biggest limitations - in my subjective opinion - are in the way the subtasks work, in the way the templates work, and in the design of mobile apps (especially the tiny little font that can't be changed, and the widget that is completely non-configurable and doesn't show the information I need). So the question is, what is it that Toodledo offers that sets it apart from Todoist / Anydo / Ticktick / Google Tasks / iOS Reminders / Outlook.com tasks / Microsoft Todo / Omni / etc ? And what in particular would make an average user - who apparently, per Toodledo's own Jake, isn't particularly "advanced" - pay for a yearly subscription ? I have no idea what Toodledo's user retention rate is, and what it's conversion rate is from free to paid, but I have a sneaking suspicion it's not very high. They already have a very capable set of features. But they need to allow users to unlock these features to get the best advantage of them. Having subtasks that can only be either completely hidden or lost, or always on screen, instead of intelligently popping up on start / due dates, is a limitation. Having a custom search that needs to be manually updated every time a user creates a new folder, and can't use name wildcards, is a limitation. Having no ability to copy a number of tasks from one folder to another, and thus no way to set up a custom template folder, is a limitation. Toodledo has a very competitive set of features that all other services don't offer in one package. It was clearly created by someone with a deep understanding of task management. But every limitation takes away some of that competitiveness. This message was edited Jul 19, 2017. |
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Ummagumma |
Posted by frindley:
if your needs require numerous top level tasks (as opposed to my system of just three tasks with many subtasks under these) then it likely won't work for you. But perhaps it might work for someone else who stumbles on this thread. Well, that's the problem. Can I fit everything under 4-5 top level tasks ? Sure, but it's going to look ugly, and copying them all to a new project every time will still be a chore. I am re-thinking the use of subtasks, anyway. When I signed up for a paid plan, I had this misunderstanding that the subtasks could be hidden away / collapsed inside the main task until they hit their trigger point (start or due date). (*) This is not the case. So breaking my tasks into clusters of main and subtasks only ends up in me having to do more clicking to go through it all. I understand that the subtasks are very useful to some people as a way to visually organize their task hierarchy, but I need them to hide things out of the way and keep my task list manageable. (*) I subscribed for two years because I've been using Toodledo Free on and off for years, and wanted to contribute something, so I'd subscribe anyway. I keep oscillating between Toodledo and Outlook as my main task systems. The problem with Outlook is that there's few iOS task clients that sync with it, and allow the use of extra fields like Start time, and sync these extra fields to Outlook. E.g. 2Do has the extra fields but they don't sync to Outlook tasks. PlanBe and Calengoo have the Start Date and sync it to Outlook tasks but have very basic task management features. Informant removed Start field from Reminders and has become very expensive. The advantage of Outlook is of course that it can be set up to work any which way you want - with the exception of subtasks - and using templated tasks or doing any kind of mass manipulation of tasks is a breeze. And of course it's saved filters are every bit as powerful as Toodledo's. I did try gSyncit but it couldn't even install on my work laptop, and the developer was of little help. Anyway... This message was edited Jul 19, 2017. |
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frindley |
Posted by Ummagumma:
I am re-thinking the use of subtasks, anyway. When I signed up for a paid plan, I had this misunderstanding that the subtasks could be hidden away / collapsed inside the main task until they hit their trigger point (start or due date). (*) This is not the case. I may well be mis-imagining your use of Toodledo but I don't find the subtasks a problem in this way. Assuming I have assigned the tasks/subtasks to a date, then they are only ever visible to me when I'm viewing that particular date and the rest of the time I don't see them unless I choose. I find I spend most of my time in Toodledo viewing specific days in the Dates/Calendar view, sorting by context, then folder. (I use the Inline view for subtasks because that's by far the cleanest and doesn't mess with my preferred sorting hierarchy.) And in fact one of the reasons I'm totally wedded to Toodledo, despite some of the flaws you mention, is the feature of estimated task Length with Total Lengths (and Total Timers). No other tasks app allows me to assess so easily how much work I'm planning for myself on any given day and to then adjust things accordingly. The other feature I quite like is that I can see a task (which technically is almost always a subtask, since I have only three parent tasks per project) and then click to view the parent task/companion subtasks, at which point it will bring up tasks that might be scheduled for other days. That allows me access the bigger picture very easily when I need to, while ensuring that most of the time I'm only seeing the tasks for the chosen day. I'll do bigger planning/initial due date assignments using the Folder view, reviewing everything for a particular publication project (folder), but for the most part I find the Dates/Calendar single-day view the most useful. |
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boydston01 |
It sounds to me like you may need an app more akin to a full blown project management solution.
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Purveyor |
Posted by Ummagumma:
I keep oscillating between Toodledo and Outlook as my main task systems. So do I and it's a bit frustrating.Here's my suggestion: Keep it simple and realize that task management is more about the method than about the specific tool. Just make sure that there's no madness in the method. :-) |
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Ummagumma |
Posted by frindley:
I may well be mis-imagining your use of Toodledo but I don't find the subtasks a problem in this way. Assuming I have assigned the tasks/subtasks to a date, then they are only ever visible to me when I'm viewing that particular date and the rest of the time I don't see them unless I choose. I find I spend most of my time in Toodledo viewing specific days in the Dates/Calendar view, sorting by context, then folder. (I use the Inline view for subtasks because that's by far the cleanest and doesn't mess with my preferred sorting hierarchy.) And in fact one of the reasons I'm totally wedded to Toodledo, despite some of the flaws you mention, is the feature of estimated task Length with Total Lengths (and Total Timers). No other tasks app allows me to assess so easily how much work I'm planning for myself on any given day and to then adjust things accordingly. The other feature I quite like is that I can see a task (which technically is almost always a subtask, since I have only three parent tasks per project) and then click to view the parent task/companion subtasks, at which point it will bring up tasks that might be scheduled for other days. That allows me access the bigger picture very easily when I need to, while ensuring that most of the time I'm only seeing the tasks for the chosen day. I'll do bigger planning/initial due date assignments using the Folder view, reviewing everything for a particular publication project (folder), but for the most part I find the Dates/Calendar single-day view the most useful. So, here's my typical use scenario. I have a presentation to prepare for August 2nd . It will require pulling together some information, making a few phone calls, and perhaps setting up a meeting or two. So I need to start working on it no later than next Wednesday. I have several proposals that are due anywhere from a week from now to late August. I need to start working on some of them this week, at the very least, and make sure I start getting them out of the way within a couple weeks. I also have a number of tasks, some of them with due dates, some without. I think I currently have about 30 - 40 active work-related tasks, and that's with me keeping any high-level "goal setting" type of tasks in mindmaps. Some of these due dates are "hard", i.e. deadlines that I have no control over. Others are "soft", set by me to meet a particular goal. Just going by the date won't do me much good, I also need to take into consideration the amount of time I have, the meetings and conference calls that take a good chunk out of that time, inevitably getting sidetracked, and making sure that tasks with no set due date still get done. Start and due dates are just one part of equation. I am trying to plan my work 2-3 days ahead, at least. Obviously adjusting for last minute changes. I handpick 3-4 tasks to work on today and apply star to them, and another 4-6 to work on next and apply top priority. Not necessarily in their due date order. I may start working on something that is not due for another two weeks, just to get going and get some progress, and postpone some other task due in a few days, knowing I will have time to finish it in advance. Once I get really busy, I don't have time to massage my task list. I don't even want to see most of my tasks unless I really have to. It's distracting. I use saved searches to only concentrate on my handpicked task list. But I don't want to get so busy I lose track and all of a sudden I've missed my trigger point for a task that was hidden. And this is why being able to roll subtasks into parent tasks and have them automatically show up on start or due date would be so useful. This message was edited Jul 19, 2017. |
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Ummagumma |
Posted by boydston01:
It sounds to me like you may need an app more akin to a full blown project management solution. No, I disagree. There's really very little additional features that I'd want to have, just being able to use existing ones better. I don't need all of the power of MS Project for this. |
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Purveyor |
Have you read Mark Foster's thoughts on task management?
http://markforster.squarespace.com/ |
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