ForumsGeneral Off Topic Chit-ChatCharge for syncing!
Charge for syncing!
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boydston01 |
Seriously, start charging for syncing, already! Maybe options of $4 biannually and $7 annually. Your apps could be free which could serve as a fantastic “trial” of sorts. If a user never needs syncing, then they have a free app, but that seems like a very easy up-sell.
Oh, start telling you customers NOW, that this price change will take place in 6 months, 1 year, whatever… Or, if possible, change the price now but grandfather current basic customers into 1 year free, or something. I know it’s crazy for a customer to suggest you start charging for a free service. I am doing so because I want to see you all, not only survive, but flourish. Also, eventually, you might be able to lower the cost of silver and gold memberships and still come out ahead, especially since this may lead to more upgrades. Anyways, thanks for letting me tell you how to run your business! :D |
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Ummagumma |
>Seriously, start charging for syncing, already
So what do you do with all of the 3rd party apps that sync with Toodledo (2do, Informant, Planbe, Gsyncit etc) And why on earth would I even try Toodledo if I can't sync it without paying ? It's not exactly the easiest system to learn overnight, it takes some getting used to. From my perspective - and I may be wrong - there are two things that Toodledo needs to become more widespread and successful: 1) A complete graphical redesign on all platforms. Even the new look is kind of dated. Look at the (soon to be missed) Wunderlist. 2) A native solution for Outlook sync - this one could be premium, although I'd prefer a one-time license. Outlook makes up almost 70% of corporate email / calendar /tasks app market, and there's precious few choices for it. |
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boydston01 |
Well, if someone is using a third party app to sync with Toodledo, why should they expect to get a completely free service from Toodledo? Don't get me wrong, I love it when a business gives me something for free but I don't think it should be expected. Third party apps that are using a service from Toodledo should expect to pay something.
I don't think learning Toodledo requires syncing. A person could play with the web app or phone app all they want--learning the ins and outs. But, yeah, they would not be able to test the syncing per se. Regarding #1, I would argue that advanced functionality usually goes hand in hand with less pretty UI. Because it's extremely difficult to have lots of features that are accessible thru a clean/pretty UI. Wunderlist is great example. Very few features compared to Toodledo. Personally, I strongly prefer Toodledo's focus on function over form--so it's also a matter of preference. Totally with you on #2. Especially if it is true that Outlook (and Exchange) still have a huge market share. Native syncing could be a gold mine. Toodledo's database seems to have a pretty good parity. |
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Ummagumma |
>Well, if someone is using a third party app to sync with Toodledo, why should they expect to get a completely free service from Toodledo ?
Because Toodledo is not #1, nor it's #2 or 3 or even 4. And because Toodledo can't be bothered to provide a sync engine of their own outside of their mobile app, which not everyone is going to use. I, just like many other people, believe that all timed actionable items - events and tasks - belong in a single calendar view, not in two different apps. And whatever task system I use better have a way of incorporating itself into my calendar apps. Why on earth would a potential new user even try a service, if he has to pay to get his tasks synced to his favorite calendar ? With all of the other available (and better known) services out there ? Yes, I personally think Toodledo offers more than most of them (in a rather, how to put it nicely, homebrewed interface) but that potential new user will never know that if he never tries the program in first place. And I will never try a system that tells me I can't sync my stuff without paying. And I don't care about limited trial periods. I purchased 2 years of Toodledo Silver (which, alas, I will end up abandoning) but only after I used the free version long enough to know that it would work for me. Now that the only calendar that supported the basic Toodledo features went subscription and jacked up their price way up, I am moving my tasks elsewhere. This would not have happened had Toodledo been in charge of their own destiny and provided their own ways of syncing. |
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Salgud |
Posted by Ummagumma:
>Well, if someone is using a third party app to sync with Toodledo, why should they expect to get a completely free service from Toodledo ? Because Toodledo is not #1, nor it's #2 or 3 or even 4. And because Toodledo can't be bothered to provide a sync engine of their own outside of their mobile app, which not everyone is going to use. I, just like many other people, believe that all timed actionable items - events and tasks - belong in a single calendar view, not in two different apps. And whatever task system I use better have a way of incorporating itself into my calendar apps. In theory, I agree with what you've said. I am moving to PI when I retire this summer mostly because I like it's iOS app's interface ,more than TDs, and because it incorporates my task list, calendar, contact list and notes in one app, and I don't need the full power of TD anymore. I even decided to pay the annual fee of $25, which some regard as ridiculous, because I can't find another app with functionality even close. On the other hand, when considering TD, it helps to remember that it is a GTD based task manager, though many of it's users are not, including myself. But one of the basic precepts of GTD is that your calendar and your task list should be entirely separate because anything with a due date is not considered a task. This is one of GTDs precepts I've never agreed with, as I tend to view a task with a Due Date just a particular kind of task and not at appointment. However, TD is GTD based, and at least originally intended primarily for GTD users. Since it is so flexible, it has been adopted by many users like myself, and it has gradually drifted away from strict GTD (hence, a calendar view, which GTD purists consider anathema). In the last 6 years I've been using TD, it hasn't drifted much toward further implementing the calendar further, and I doubt it will, at least not under present management. It might move more toward integrating the Outlook calendar more, but that's as far as I see it going. So full integration, as in PI, is not likely for the foreseeable future, and, in my opinion, should not be expected. If this feature is as important to you as it is to me, then you are making the right decision to change task managers. For those that are hardcore GTDers, or just don't care about real calendar integration, TD is still the best, most flexible, dependable, best supported and all around usable task manager I know. |
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Ummagumma |
GTD is a method, not a religion. And it was set up before the advances in electronic tools / smartphones. It's very complicated in order to make sure tasks don't get lost / forgotten - using the low-tech approach like the marked up file folders. In my personal experience, faithfully following GTD results in way too much time spent on maintaining the task list, instead of having more time to actually work on these pesky tasks ;).
If your day starts early in the morning and lasts until evening and is full of meetings, calls, deadlines, sudden delegated issues and "oh shlts" that need to be taken care of, the last thing you want is to separate your calendar from your daily tasks. These are all timed items that fill your day, and they belong in the same view. I want to see, as minimum, my meetings for the day, the tasks I handpicked to work on today, the tasks that are due today, and overdue tasks. In a single view that I can glance at on the fly. I don't buy into the "importance vs urgency" quadrangle, either. All that matters is the need, and the deadline. If it must be done, and has a deadline, then it must be done before the deadline. If you can move the deadline or not do the task altogether, then it's neither important nor urgent. Doesn't matter if we're talking paying the water bill or making a presentation for a room full of executives. I generate my tasks in various applications - email, Onenote, sometimes a mind mapper . Most of the "high level" tasks never leave the app; only the directly actionable, concrete tasks go into Outlook, arranged by project lists. I also have a Master task view set up for tracking / planning these tasks. I break my master task list into three groups. The tasks that I will work on today (no more than 4-6), the tasks I will work on next (also no more than 4-6), and all the rest, sorted by the due date. Since the majority of calendar apps don't support Star, I use priorities for this (which also works well with desktop Outlook). High priority for "Today", medium for "Next", low priority for the rest of tasks, no priority means the task has not yet been "processed" so it also works as Inbox. Any task that has a deadline and takes more than an hour or two to complete gets a start date, so that it doesn't sneak up on me. I try to review my task list every evening, but certainly no less than 3-4 times a week. So, with that approach, I don't really *need* Toodledo. I *liked* using it, because planning and organizing my tasks in it was easy. OTOH, having to manually enter them, or forward as emails, was a PITA. However, at the end of the day, I don't like Toodledo enough to start paying the high subscription price for the buggy Informant with an ugly new interface and an uncertain future, or going with separate calendar and task apps. This message was edited May 03, 2017. |
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boydston01 |
Posted by Ummagumma:
>Well, if someone is using a third party app to sync with Toodledo, why should they expect to get a completely free service from Toodledo ? Because Toodledo is not #1, nor it's #2 or 3 or even 4. And because Toodledo can't be bothered to provide a sync engine of their own outside of their mobile app, which not everyone is going to use. I, just like many other people, believe that all timed actionable items - events and tasks - belong in a single calendar view, not in two different apps. And whatever task system I use better have a way of incorporating itself into my calendar apps. Are you saying: “Since Toodledo is small in the market place and does not provide ‘xyz’ features, people should not expect to pay for Toodledo?” If that is what you are saying, we just plain disagree. I think when good or services are rendered, compensation should always be expected. I totally get where you are coming from with everything else. |
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Peter S... |
Providing the ability for third party apps to sync only promotes Toodledo more, draws new people in some of whom will subscribe.
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Ummagumma |
"Are you saying: “Since Toodledo is small in the market place and does not provide ‘xyz’ features, people should not expect to pay for Toodledo?”
No, that's not what I am saying. My reply was to OP who suggested that Toodledo should start charging for sync. Sync is the basic feature that everyone needs. Toodledo not being well known or widely adapted, they can't afford to charge for sync because it will turn potential users away from the beginning. Why would I even consider trying a less-known service if I have to pay to get my tasks synced to my phone (even with a trial period) when every other service provides free sync ? I believe to make money they need to support Exchange sync as a paid feature, instead of relying on the iffy and pricey 3rd party tools. Any.do, Todoist etc. have a very different approach - they provide a very basic set of task features in a snazzy, simple, fast and easy to use mobile interface. So they are targeting mobile users, and seem to be fairly successful. Toodledo's niche is the people who need more advanced task management features, and are willing to live with a bit more confusing / dated interface. I bet that the majority of them are using Toodledo for work related tasks, and are using Outlook at work (Outlook still holds about 70% of corporate email marketshare). Outlook has a very advanced task management, and if Toodledo could sync to it via Exchange, it would be a match made in heaven. This would be a good feature to charge for. As it stands now, I think Toodledo provides too much for free, and too little for a paid Silver tier. |
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boydston01 |
Posted by Ummagumma:
"Are you saying: “Since Toodledo is small in the market place and does not provide ‘xyz’ features, people should not expect to pay for Toodledo?” No, that's not what I am saying. Sync is the basic feature that everyone needs. Toodledo not being well known or widely adapted, they can't afford to charge for sync because it will turn potential users away from the beginning. Why would I even consider trying a less-known service if I have to pay to get my tasks synced to my phone (even with a trial period) when every other service provides free sync ? Ok, I see what you mean. I still have a different perspective, but I think your point is valid. To your point about addressing the Outlook users: 10 years ago, I was "all in" with Outlook and Exchange—professionally and personally. In addition to my work Exchange, I subscribed to my own personal hosted exchange. With WinMo 6 died, I migrated to Google Apps. I have always wanted to go back to Outlook/Exchange. The single biggest reason I have never been able to is a good solution for accessing exchange tasks on mobile. |
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Ummagumma |
"To your point about addressing the Outlook users: 10 years ago, I was "all in" with Outlook and Exchange—professionally and personally. In addition to my work Exchange, I subscribed to my own personal hosted exchange. With WinMo 6 died, I migrated to Google Apps. I have always wanted to go back to Outlook/Exchange. The single biggest reason I have never been able to is a good solution for accessing exchange tasks on mobile."
If it's a personal account, just sign up for an Outlook.com address, it's now a proper Exchange and can be synced both to the Outlook on the desktop, and iOS reminders, without using any 3rd party tools. Or if you're dead set against Outlook.com for some reason, the iCloud client for Windows syncs with Outlook pretty well too. If you're set on using Toodledo, and still want to use Outlook, then look at gSyncit. I can't use it because it doesn't work with proxy firewall at our work (even though most other services do). Overall, in my experience, Exchange + iOS devices is far easier to set up for a decent task and calendar workflow than Exchange + Android. More choices and fewer hurdles. This message was edited May 08, 2017. |
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boydston01 |
Thanks, Ummagumma.
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