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SteveFamilyMan_2	Posted Feb 17, 2023 in: New Android app - idiotic landscape view + auto-save + others Score: 0 SteveFamilyMan_2 Posted: Feb 17, 2023 Score: 0 I have been using the Android version of the beta Toodledo app. Overall it's pretty good. I like that it's always live and syncing. The old app didn't sync consistently or reliably so I had to create a habit of going up into the menu options and telling it to sync. I can't understand why when I turn the phone sideways to landscape mode so I can see much more of the text in my longer task entries, the app automatically expands the settings panel on the left side, and it shortens the width of the task view on the right side so that there's barely more of the task description showing than there was in portrait orientation, and there's no way for me to hide the settings panel again. WHAT???? That makes no sense at all. If someone turns their phone sideways to landscape view, why would you interpret that to mean "I want to see the settings panel"??? Obviously if someone rotates their phone to landscape it's because they're trying to SEE SOMETHING in that view that they couldn't see in portrait view. GIVE US THE WHOLE SCREEN and don't make decisions for us (especially when we can't hide the stupid thing you're shoving in our face). I can't understand why you went away from auto-save for new tasks, but you kept auto-save for modifying existing tasks. Ok, so in the old app, if you created a new task, type some stuff, and then back out of it with the "back" button on Android phones (not sure which equivalent button on iPhones), the task you started populating will automatically save. In the new app, you MUST press the up arrow to save your new task, and if you forget to press that and hit the back button, you're out of luck...your new task is gone. And worse yet, there's no dialogue telling you your new task was just flushed down the toilet, so in a hurry (which we always are) we might think we just created a new task when in fact that task is no where. And if there was critical information in there like someone's phone number, address, document name, web link, or something else only recorded there, now we're REALLY S.O.L.! C'mon guys, why did you take away auto-save?? And to make matters worse, you don't even manage the apps consistently in regards to saving. When editing/modifying an existing app, I dutifully look for the up arrow to MAKE SURE I save my changes. But guess what? No up arrow. The only way to save those task changes is to simply back out of the task and it...(wait for it)...AUTOSAVES the changes. WHAT???? Guys, do you not see how confusing that is, and how you're simply creating the high likelihood of someone doing things wrong? I can't imagine why you would require a save button instead of just autosaving when we back out of a new tasks, but if you ARE going to dig in your heels and continue requiring the up arrow save button for new tasks, then do the SAME THING for modifying existing tasks. Don't teach us one behavior for new tasks and then restrict us to a different behavior for modifying tasks...ESPECIALLY when that second behavior is catastrophic to the first situation!! Further, I have to ask...why did you get rid of the SUPER handy shortcuts when editing the Due Date? Used to be we could instantly tap on Today, Yesterday, Tomorrow, or any one of the days in the upcoming week, or 1 month from now, or 1 year from now. I used those ALL THE TIME. Now my only option today, tomorrow, and "next Monday". That's weird. Why "next Monday"? Anyway, now if I want any date besides those I have to to into the calendar, think more (i know...the horror of it!), and take more time to figure out which date makes the most sense to me or which date I had in mind. With the multitude of quick links it was tap-tap done. I guess the last thing to mention is that the new app is much slower than the old app. It's not "end of the world" slow, but it is definitely a lot slower. Not cool. Ok, that's all I've got for now. Please take these REAL LIFE observations and recommendations into serious consideration. Thanks! -Steve
SteveFamilyMan_2	Posted Jul 14, 2018 in: Future Plans Score: 3 SteveFamilyMan_2 Posted: Jul 14, 2018 Score: 3 #1 Welcome new owners. I'm worried, but welcome anyway. I wish you well. #2 I have tried DOZENS of other popular task organization systems over the years and I have abandoned every one of them and stuck with ToodleDo for somewhere in the ballpark of 10 years now. #3 PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE do not make major changes...not soon, and not ever. If you want to take user feedback and "finesse" ToodleDo...address bugs, remove widespread problems, increase speed, etc. GREAT. But major changes of any kind? No. Not soon, and not ever. The reason ToodleDo has been the service I have come back to over and over and over for a decade is that it is the best already. The problem with sitting atop the peak of a mountain is that it's dang easy to fall off. Just focus on staying put firm on the peak of the mountain, not on ascending other mountains (or however you want to take this analogy). #4 Key Point: The desktop version must be VERY similar (virtually identical) in function and look to any and all mobile versions. ToodleDo has done this well in recent years with their Android app. Don't let that slip! #5 Key Point: What is so great about ToodleDo that you need to guard and preserve? Here's the bad part; I don't know. As I have used dozens of other applications--some failing to meet my needs on the desktop side, some on the mobile device side--I couldn't always put it into words to clearly describe what specifically made me abandon one or the other. It's weird...initially, looking at the list of features and options that each application had things nearly always sounded good. It wasn't that your competitors had bad ideas, and it's not necessarily that any particular ideas were implemented poorly (although sometimes that surely was the case). It's almost like the whole ecosystem had to click right...and that was really, really hard for most developers to get right. I think it's a subtle balance of simplicity with flexibility/options, and enough info displayed at one time without it being too much and without it being too busy, too distracting, convoluted, etc. It's really hard to say what specific things are great and why ToodleDo is the best. But I CAUTION YOU not to screw around with it. It would be really easy to say "oh, well we're only going to make "improvements" based on community feedback" and then jump into it feeling like the sky is the limit and you're going to make the best task management application even "bester". But for the same mysterious reason that dozens and dozens of other [presumably intelligent, observant, hard-working, creative, and clever] people have failed to displace ToodleDo as the best, you might just as easily apply your good intentions and find you upset the current "just right" synergistic blend of design features. PLEASE DON'T DO IT. I don't think it's as easy as you or others may think it is. For example, one user gave feedback in this thread saying he wanted more color in the UI. Sounds innocent enough. Who wouldn't want more color? Wouldn't more color just make it easier to sort and organize and keep track of different things on the screen?? Perhaps. Or, it's the relatively simple and nondescript color scheme that has contributed to it having that "just right" balance of design features. I have used applications that tried to use a lot of different colors for good and helpful intentions, but with the actual result looking like a bowl of jellybeans and being more distracting than helpful. That's just one example, but similar logic can be used with almost any design and function element you might consider adding or changing. Looks good up front, everyone agrees it can only help and not hurt, but in actuality it ends up screwing with the unique balance that ToodleDo has achieved and so few other applications have. So I'm trying to say that the things making ToodleDo great today are not necessarily very measurable or quantifiable, and you'd do well to take the humble approach of maintaining (with minor finesse and tune up) rather than the bold "we can do anything" approach that you're going to take the already-best solution and make it better. Truth is, I doubt it. #6 I'll mention one thing that could be improved... I currently have 2650 tasks in total. About half a year ago that number was around 3000 to 3100 tasks, and around that quantity your Android app began choking. I couldn't add an app, modify an existing app, delete an app, or do almost anything else on my [modern, up-to-date, and healthy] Android phone without significant delays at VIRTUALLY EVERY tap. It took me a while to figure it out...I uninstalled the app, totally updated everything I could think of in my phone, re-installed the app...no change. Tried everything, but the only thing that affected it was reducing the number of tasks. That was a pain, but on the desktop I did sift back through hundreds (even thousands) of tasks and tediously deleted as many older tasks as I could. The considerable laggyness in the Android app got less and less, and after a certain point the laggyness was gone. I didn't think 3000 tasks was all that many, but apparently it's too many for your current Android app. #7 I saw earlier a question about if most users are using ToodleDo on desktops or on mobile devices. Just thought I'd weigh in that for the last decade or so I have used ToodleDo MANY times per day on BOTH desktop AND mobile devices. ToodleDo is my hub. It's central to ALL of my planning at home, at church, at work, in my personal hobbies and interests, etc. When my wife asks me "so what do you have planned for today?" the first thing I do is consult my ToodleDo list(s), and THEN I answer her, and I'm managing those lists constantly on both my Android phone AND my Windows computers. FWIW. Thanks, and good luck! This message was edited Jul 14, 2018.

Author

Message

Posted Feb 17, 2023 in: New Android app - idiotic landscape view + auto-save + others

Score: 0

SteveFamilyMan_2
Posted: Feb 17, 2023
Score: 0

I have been using the Android version of the beta Toodledo app. Overall it's pretty good. I like that it's always live and syncing. The old app didn't sync consistently or reliably so I had to create a habit of going up into the menu options and telling it to sync.

I can't understand why when I turn the phone sideways to landscape mode so I can see much more of the text in my longer task entries, the app automatically expands the settings panel on the left side, and it shortens the width of the task view on the right side so that there's barely more of the task description showing than there was in portrait orientation, and there's no way for me to hide the settings panel again. WHAT???? That makes no sense at all. If someone turns their phone sideways to landscape view, why would you interpret that to mean "I want to see the settings panel"??? Obviously if someone rotates their phone to landscape it's because they're trying to SEE SOMETHING in that view that they couldn't see in portrait view. GIVE US THE WHOLE SCREEN and don't make decisions for us (especially when we can't hide the stupid thing you're shoving in our face).

I can't understand why you went away from auto-save for new tasks, but you kept auto-save for modifying existing tasks. Ok, so in the old app, if you created a new task, type some stuff, and then back out of it with the "back" button on Android phones (not sure which equivalent button on iPhones), the task you started populating will automatically save. In the new app, you MUST press the up arrow to save your new task, and if you forget to press that and hit the back button, you're out of luck...your new task is gone. And worse yet, there's no dialogue telling you your new task was just flushed down the toilet, so in a hurry (which we always are) we might think we just created a new task when in fact that task is no where. And if there was critical information in there like someone's phone number, address, document name, web link, or something else only recorded there, now we're REALLY S.O.L.! C'mon guys, why did you take away auto-save??

And to make matters worse, you don't even manage the apps consistently in regards to saving. When editing/modifying an existing app, I dutifully look for the up arrow to MAKE SURE I save my changes. But guess what? No up arrow. The only way to save those task changes is to simply back out of the task and it...(wait for it)...AUTOSAVES the changes. WHAT???? Guys, do you not see how confusing that is, and how you're simply creating the high likelihood of someone doing things wrong? I can't imagine why you would require a save button instead of just autosaving when we back out of a new tasks, but if you ARE going to dig in your heels and continue requiring the up arrow save button for new tasks, then do the SAME THING for modifying existing tasks. Don't teach us one behavior for new tasks and then restrict us to a different behavior for modifying tasks...ESPECIALLY when that second behavior is catastrophic to the first situation!!

Further, I have to ask...why did you get rid of the SUPER handy shortcuts when editing the Due Date? Used to be we could instantly tap on Today, Yesterday, Tomorrow, or any one of the days in the upcoming week, or 1 month from now, or 1 year from now. I used those ALL THE TIME. Now my only option today, tomorrow, and "next Monday". That's weird. Why "next Monday"? Anyway, now if I want any date besides those I have to to into the calendar, think more (i know...the horror of it!), and take more time to figure out which date makes the most sense to me or which date I had in mind. With the multitude of quick links it was tap-tap done.

I guess the last thing to mention is that the new app is much slower than the old app. It's not "end of the world" slow, but it is definitely a lot slower. Not cool.

Ok, that's all I've got for now.
Please take these REAL LIFE observations and recommendations into serious consideration.

Thanks!
-Steve

SteveFamilyMan_2

Posted Jul 14, 2018 in: Future Plans

Score: 3

SteveFamilyMan_2
Posted: Jul 14, 2018
Score: 3

#1 Welcome new owners. I'm worried, but welcome anyway. I wish you well.

#2 I have tried DOZENS of other popular task organization systems over the years and I have abandoned every one of them and stuck with ToodleDo for somewhere in the ballpark of 10 years now.

#3 PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE do not make major changes...not soon, and not ever. If you want to take user feedback and "finesse" ToodleDo...address bugs, remove widespread problems, increase speed, etc. GREAT. But major changes of any kind? No. Not soon, and not ever. The reason ToodleDo has been the service I have come back to over and over and over for a decade is that it is the best already. The problem with sitting atop the peak of a mountain is that it's dang easy to fall off. Just focus on staying put firm on the peak of the mountain, not on ascending other mountains (or however you want to take this analogy).

#4 Key Point: The desktop version must be VERY similar (virtually identical) in function and look to any and all mobile versions. ToodleDo has done this well in recent years with their Android app. Don't let that slip!

#5 Key Point: What is so great about ToodleDo that you need to guard and preserve? Here's the bad part; I don't know. As I have used dozens of other applications--some failing to meet my needs on the desktop side, some on the mobile device side--I couldn't always put it into words to clearly describe what specifically made me abandon one or the other. It's weird...initially, looking at the list of features and options that each application had things nearly always sounded good. It wasn't that your competitors had bad ideas, and it's not necessarily that any particular ideas were implemented poorly (although sometimes that surely was the case). It's almost like the whole ecosystem had to click right...and that was really, really hard for most developers to get right. I think it's a subtle balance of simplicity with flexibility/options, and enough info displayed at one time without it being too much and without it being too busy, too distracting, convoluted, etc. It's really hard to say what specific things are great and why ToodleDo is the best. But I CAUTION YOU not to screw around with it. It would be really easy to say "oh, well we're only going to make "improvements" based on community feedback" and then jump into it feeling like the sky is the limit and you're going to make the best task management application even "bester". But for the same mysterious reason that dozens and dozens of other [presumably intelligent, observant, hard-working, creative, and clever] people have failed to displace ToodleDo as the best, you might just as easily apply your good intentions and find you upset the current "just right" synergistic blend of design features. PLEASE DON'T DO IT. I don't think it's as easy as you or others may think it is. For example, one user gave feedback in this thread saying he wanted more color in the UI. Sounds innocent enough. Who wouldn't want more color? Wouldn't more color just make it easier to sort and organize and keep track of different things on the screen?? Perhaps. Or, it's the relatively simple and nondescript color scheme that has contributed to it having that "just right" balance of design features. I have used applications that tried to use a lot of different colors for good and helpful intentions, but with the actual result looking like a bowl of jellybeans and being more distracting than helpful. That's just one example, but similar logic can be used with almost any design and function element you might consider adding or changing. Looks good up front, everyone agrees it can only help and not hurt, but in actuality it ends up screwing with the unique balance that ToodleDo has achieved and so few other applications have. So I'm trying to say that the things making ToodleDo great today are not necessarily very measurable or quantifiable, and you'd do well to take the humble approach of maintaining (with minor finesse and tune up) rather than the bold "we can do anything" approach that you're going to take the already-best solution and make it better. Truth is, I doubt it.

#6 I'll mention one thing that could be improved... I currently have 2650 tasks in total. About half a year ago that number was around 3000 to 3100 tasks, and around that quantity your Android app began choking. I couldn't add an app, modify an existing app, delete an app, or do almost anything else on my [modern, up-to-date, and healthy] Android phone without significant delays at VIRTUALLY EVERY tap. It took me a while to figure it out...I uninstalled the app, totally updated everything I could think of in my phone, re-installed the app...no change. Tried everything, but the only thing that affected it was reducing the number of tasks. That was a pain, but on the desktop I did sift back through hundreds (even thousands) of tasks and tediously deleted as many older tasks as I could. The considerable laggyness in the Android app got less and less, and after a certain point the laggyness was gone. I didn't think 3000 tasks was all that many, but apparently it's too many for your current Android app.

#7 I saw earlier a question about if most users are using ToodleDo on desktops or on mobile devices. Just thought I'd weigh in that for the last decade or so I have used ToodleDo MANY times per day on BOTH desktop AND mobile devices. ToodleDo is my hub. It's central to ALL of my planning at home, at church, at work, in my personal hobbies and interests, etc. When my wife asks me "so what do you have planned for today?" the first thing I do is consult my ToodleDo list(s), and THEN I answer her, and I'm managing those lists constantly on both my Android phone AND my Windows computers. FWIW.

Thanks, and good luck!

This message was edited Jul 14, 2018.