ForumsQuestionssubtasks only go down one level?
subtasks only go down one level?
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mattsez |
Seven level hierarchy task management? Wow, I wouldn't even do that for formal project management. At some point, a complicated organization system gets in the way of being productive.
One thing I have noticed with many user's "work arounds" on here: using the tag field for a less than ideal solution. So I have a suggestion: why not have one custom field. It could be a simple one line text field, so users could use the tag field for something closer to the original intent, or it can have more advanced settings: * Change the field name of the custom field * Define data type * Define drop down values * Define sort order There's probably a few other ideas I am missing, but this would be a great way of satisfying many people's individual needs all at once. (This could even be another Pro account exclusive to sweeten the deal). Unfortunately, we would then inevitably have people calling for seven different custom fields. Just a thought. |
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Jake Toodledo Founder |
Thanks for the suggestion.
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bartlett.jason |
I think the primary reason people are looking for deeper task nesting is to impose a structure or sequence to the tasks.
In typical Gantt chart style project plans you work through the tasks from left to right with the individual tasks, required to complete a roll-up or milestone task, indented to many levels - usually to indicate dependency or sequence of execution. Most WBS plans would have multiple levels of indent/subtask to define each small step or specific task. In the Outlining, Mindmapping and GTD world, your plan starts with the result and then lists each of the smaller steps (Next Actions) required to reach the result. The end result of either methodology is the same. A main task that is accomplished by completing several smaller tasks, with the tasks linked in some sort of sequence or flow. Where Toodledo is lacking is in the ability to link or assign a sequence to tasks so that you can filter to just "what needs to be done first". Or just real "Next Actions" in GTD parlance. Vitalist does this reasonably well. You can define projects and many levels of sub task. The "Next Actions" filter shows you only the top task under each sub level (rather than all of them. You have to re-arrange tasks to put tasks you have to work on first at the top of the list, which is a little awkward. I would prefer that it showed the most important task (based on criteria like: oldesthighest priority/closest due date/start date) first and if they were all equal then the one at the bottom of the list as the "Next Action". What I would really like to see in Toodledo is a way to properly filter to real "Next Actions". For example if I have 4 subtasks under a task, a filter option that would only show one of them. I haven't been able to come up with a way to make a search query that shows me only one "Next Action" per project (without manually adjusting other tasks when I complete one. T'do also needs a better way to identify projects as "owners" of other tasks similar to the way Vitalist lets you nest projects and task "groups" within one "project" field/drop-down. |
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HansD |
Posted by bartlett.jason:
What I would really like to see in Toodledo is a way to properly filter to real "Next Actions". For example if I have 4 subtasks under a task, a filter option that would only show one of them. I haven't been able to come up with a way to make a search query that shows me only one "Next Action" per project (without manually adjusting other tasks when I complete one. Well, ToDo can show you what the next actions are - as you have indicated what they are, eg by using the status field. What you are looking for - and many others - is to have ToDo work out when an task can be switched to a Next Action state, either by having the nesting/hierarchy of tasks, sequnetials etc. Thus a more active approach. In case of a nested taskset, must Toodledo than switch the status of the parent task to Next Action? Seems to me this must only be done in special cases, eg when then status of the direct parent has NA on completion of subtaks or so, as I prefer my apps do not make too much assumptions. The other ways could be that it has already a status Next Action, but this is temporary 'blocked' because it has incompleted subtasks. But here again, I might want to show these kind of tasks also as next action where you don't. |
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Anders |
I know Toodledo has mentioned that they are working on task dependencies, and I think that will be a great enhancement. I think that is a much better solution than level after level of tasks.
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bartlett.jason |
Posted by HansD:
Posted by bartlett.jason: What I would really like to see in Toodledo is a way to properly filter to real "Next Actions". For example if I have 4 subtasks under a task, a filter option that would only show one of them. I haven't been able to come up with a way to make a search query that shows me only one "Next Action" per project (without manually adjusting other tasks when I complete one. Well, ToDo can show you what the next actions are - as you have indicated what they are, eg by using the status field. What you are looking for - and many others - is to have ToDo work out when an task can be switched to a Next Action state, either by having the nesting/hierarchy of tasks, sequnetials etc. Thus a more active approach. In case of a nested taskset, must Toodledo than switch the status of the parent task to Next Action? Seems to me this must only be done in special cases, eg when then status of the direct parent has NA on completion of subtaks or so, as I prefer my apps do not make too much assumptions. The other ways could be that it has already a status Next Action, but this is temporary 'blocked' because it has incompleted subtasks. But here again, I might want to show these kind of tasks also as next action where you don't. HansD: I agree that you wouldn't want too much automation to control the visibility of Next Actions. I'm only looking for a view/filter option where just one Next Action per Project/Subtask be visible. Let's consider a basic group of tasks and subtasks: TaskGroup1 - SubTask A - SubTask B - SubTask C TaskGroup2 - SubTask X - SubTask Y - SubTask Z Note: All tasks are marked as "Next Actions". In my "Next Actions Only" view only SubTask C and SubTask Z would show. If SubTask C was marked complete and the view refreshed then only SubTask B and SubTask Z would show. This not a change in how T'Do works right now AFAIK but just a special kind of view or search that shows only the last Next Action in a set of subtasks. Ideally this would be checkbox that would modify many or all of the existing views. This message was edited May 07, 2009. |
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jbbentz |
I second the request for a custom field". I am using one of my contexts for tasks that have specific Dollar Values. I would like to be able to add a field where I can type in a dollar value and sort by that value later.
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Michael |
I would definitely support the "infinate subtasks" approach.
There is no need to call it a "subsubsubtask" - every task is just a task. Each task has a parent, and any action on a task has(or can have) a recursive effect on any other task where it is the parent. This will be a very simple approach, possibly even simpler than the current one (no longer have strict need for folders) The biggest need for this is to reduce complexity. No matter how deep your rigid setup is, it will never really have the usefulness of the above approach. Sometimes I do not know what is the extent of a project and seemingly simple subtask can become a large project of its own. I do not want to keep recreating and reorganizing my tasks. I just want to be able to write them down quickly and track them. So why enforce a single rigid structure on the user - let the user figure out their own structure. The only complex add-on to this is to provide a task view where the only thing you can see is the chosen task and its children. This is basically the folder view using a task as a folder. Just my 2 cents. -M |
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Proximo |
We all use Toodledo in different ways and our ideas of how things should be done will vary.
I guess my perspective is that Flexibility gives everyone the ability to use Tooldedo in a way it makes sense for them. I am not saying that unlimited flexibility is the answer and I understand that at some point the User Interface has to be considered by Toodledo when adding functionality. How will the GUI work if subtask where unlimited. Not sure, but I bet it would become a mess at some point. I would just like to see a couple of more levels. This gives extra flexibility while keeping the GUI clean. This message was edited May 21, 2009. |
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Michael |
Posted by Proximo:
We all use Toodledo in different ways and our ideas of how things should be done will vary. I guess my perspective is that Flexibility gives everyone the ability to use Tooldedo in a way it makes sense for them. Agreed. You rarely get to be successful by forcing your users to do things your way. (I think Apple is arguably the only exception to that rule) I am not saying that unlimited flexibility is the answer and I understand that at some point the User Interface has to be considered by Toodledo when adding functionality. How will the GUI work if subtask where unlimited. Not sure, but I bet it would become a mess at some point. I would just like to see a couple of more levels. This gives extra flexibility while keeping the GUI clean. There I disagree with you. Its not so much about unlimited flexibility, as it is about SIMPLE flexibility. KISS principle at work. Adding a few more levels will make things more convoluted and more specific and will require a lot of custom programing because each level is a special case. THAT will cause UI to get messy. On the other hand the simplicity of adding unlimited levels (don't be scared by the word "unlimited") is in that there is only one level view to worry about. You have a task, it has a parent and by virtue of other tasks having it as a parent, it has children. Simple. It does not matter what level it is - the UI is the same. In fact UI is pretty much the same as it is now with 1 level of subtasks. The only new thing you need is a folder-equivalent view starting at any particular task - like the folder view, but listing only subtasks of any given task and for each task in a list optional link to that view + link to that view for the parent. You can think of it kind of like browsing a hard drive, except that each file is also a folder. -M |
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Proximo |
@Michael,
I think I follow your idea. So we won't have a tree type structure for every subtask that is under an existing subtask. Instead, have a subtask group that is a child to another task or subtask and have the ability to view that group easily. Not sure if I got it, but I think I understand you point and I agree. You can keep the UI clean with some innovative design and planning. |
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Miles |
Michael said it better than I could. Please add 'unlimited' tasks. If your worried about UI, then limit it to:
- Show all subtasks - Show starred subtasks - Collapse all subtasks - Collapse starred subtasks For everything else, the user is on their own Thanks Michael for your explanations. - Miles |
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x86dude.au |
Make a system with just one design object : recursive tasks.
The recursive task has the attributes of both task and folder. Toodledo. |-task |-task |-task |-task |-task |-task Just as important is that a task should inherit the attributes of its child tasks. If a child task is due today, then that should mark all parents up the tree line as due today. So a task with no children is user controlled. A task with children acts like a folder.. The design should be analogous to a file system. But it is important to merge the objects of task and folder into one object. That permits a task to have child-tasks at any time. Design the recursive task file system first, then think about GUIs after. This may sound like a lot of work. But it is important to realise that this design could make the overall system simpler and less work for ToodleDo. And if ToodleDo does not do this then somebody else will. |
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x86dude.au |
Sorry.
The HTML has removed the indenting I had in the task tree illustration. Toodledo. |-task |-task --|---task ----------|task --|---task |-task |
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Vin Thomas |
Posted by x86dude.au:
And if ToodleDo does not do this then somebody else will. It has been done with other task management systems out there, but in the end they fall so short in all the other features that make Toodledo so amazing. I imagine if we wait long enough (hopefully sooner than later) we will get many of the popularly requested features. And this has got to be in the top 3. |
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Toddbg |
Toodledo has stated they are thinking of adding at least one more level (that was back in August of 09).
Where do things stand now? I am in agreement with Anders, while I would love to see the simplicity of a recursive subtask object that inherits behaviors of the parent I would be fine with 1 or 1.5 levels added in. I currently use: Projects: (folder) list of projects: (primary task) tasks for that project (subtask) Would love to have the ability for: Projects: (folder visible in main view) List of Projects (sub folder?) Primary Task (Primary task) Subtask (subtask) implementation task (subsubtask (quick stepped checklist to get subtask done)) Any update Toodledo? |
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Alan |
Posted by Toodledo:
Most tasks managers only have 1 or 2 levels. We have 3, so thats a big advance over most of our competitors. Forgive me - I'm having a dumb moment (lack of sleep - too many tasks - sigh). How do we have three levels? I can see main task and sub-task. What's the third? |
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Vin Thomas |
Some people consider "Folder" as a level...
I guess I see the logic, but not quite clear. This message was edited Feb 02, 2010. |
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Patrick |
I too would find the ability to add at least one more layer of subtasks to the hierarchy enormously helpful. Right now I'm juggling two applications (Toodledo and Outliner) to achieve what I wish one app could do. I do hope this will be in the next update :)
This aside, Toodledo is a godsend to the disorganized :) |
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Qrystal |
One more layer would be nice, I suppose, because it would replace the fact that I use the notes field for subsubtasks.
To the people who are saying a simple checkbox list would suffice for subsubtasks: you might be onto something... because if the next level down is really simple, without all the details needed for tasks/subtasks the way they are, maybe it will be implemented sooner! In the meantime, you might want to try using the notes field as follows: use [_] for an empty checkbox, [x] to mark when a subsubtask is done, [/] if something is half done. You can also indent with dashes or underscores (or spaces, if you don't mind that they are only indented when editing the note field), in case some of the subsubtasks need more information or have a few subsubsubtasks. Edit: I just realized that people who use the Grid view might not see their notes expanded as often as I do. I use Multi-Line, and so any time I look at more than the barest details of a task, the note is shown in all its glory. This message was edited Mar 10, 2010. |
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